Bestselling Author Norman Ohler on Drugs, Caves & Human History

I sat down with Norman Ohler, bestselling author of Blitzed: Drugs in Nazi Germany and Tripped: Nazi Germany, the CIA, and the Dawn of the Psychedelic Age, to explore a question that runs quietly through his work: the role of psychoactive substances throughout human history.

Our discussion moved across time & context — from ancient environments like caves, where altered states were often sought in isolation & ritual darkness, to modern societies that medicalize, regulate or mythologize drug use. The cave emerged not as the central topic, but as a powerful symbol: a place where sensory deprivation, fear & transcendence intersect, forcing confrontation with the unknown.

From there, we widened the lens to examine how drugs have influenced early humans, evolution, art & cultural narratives.

We also spoke about the changing meaning of Psychedelics as they move from underground contexts into mainstream acceptance. Clinical frameworks promise legitimacy & safety, but they can also flatten the destabilizing or disruptive qualities that once made these experiences transformative.

What emerges is a more complex picture of altered states than the dominant narratives allow. Drugs can illuminate hidden aspects of the self & society. They can also reinforce myths, fuel conflict or be instrumentalized by systems of power.

We go deep into these tensions…including ancient ritual settings, prohibition politics & the uncertain cultural future of Psychedelics.

I think you’ll find this conversation thought-provoking.